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I enjoy book discussions, whether it’s a read or another author. After all, writers are readers, too, and have a right to their opinions.
I have visited PBW and agree that the reviews are done in a constructive, thought-provoking way. I have my own blog but my personal choice is not to do negative reviews for fear of bashing someone. That may change. But if I ever do decide to point out what I didn’t like about a book, I hope I do it in the same fashion. I dislike the rants, the ripping apart of a story with little or no care or consideration to how unhelpful or now cruel the review is.
I don’t think an author who offers up an honest opinion with the intention of pointing out exactly what was wrong with the book is a bad thing at all - like you said, that’s how you learn the process. But if the review goes something like “this book sucked and should be obliterated from the universe because it was so stupid” than I really don’t want to read it. How does that help me as a reader either? I don’t think it does. If the review said “the plot was weak, the characters were one-dimensional, and the resolution was not believable”, then I might take a step back and reconsider reading that particular story.
Okay just my little opinion in a world of millions :)
by Stacy ~
on April 6th, 2006 at 6:30 am
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I totally agree with Stacy! The review should really include something more than “the book was great” or “it really sucked”. Besides, just because one person thinks that the book sucks, it doesn’t necessarily mean that it really does. I need to see much more than one bad review before I deside that I’m not going to read the book in the first place.
by Minna
on April 6th, 2006 at 6:56 am
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I really appreciate honesty in book discussions. Whether the person initiating the discussion is an author or reader does not matter to me. Authors are not unprofessional for giving an opinion about books in my view. However, I can understand that being friends in an industry, one might not want to hurt someone else’s feelings. As a reader, the reviews and discussions that I find most helpful tell why someone thinks the book is great or, as may be the case, not great. I tend to buy books after reading a few pages and then if still undecided, looking up a few reviews. My book budget is adequate for what I wish, but I am careful to research what I really want to put on that wish list.
by little lamb lost
on April 6th, 2006 at 7:52 am
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You can leave me out of the drawing Alison, I just like this discussion *grin*.
Reviews are a favorite subject of mine, as many, many people know by now, lol, and I’m in agreement with you. A good review is unhelpful if it doesn’t provide both the negative and positive. In my mind, a review is for both the reader and the author.
It *can* give the author an opportunity to get honest feedback about their book and to, perhaps, realize where any flaws might have been. If the review is well-written, it can be an insightful look into the book.
For the reader, it can help them decide if this is a book they want to spend money on. To have only positive reviews from a reviewer or review site isn’t very helpful because it tells readers and authors that either the reviewer loves every book out there or they’re not honest about every book out there. Having only glowing reviews also doesn’t provide other readers with a basis for comparison between your tastes and theirs. No two people have exactly the same tastes, but it’s easier to know if you can trust their opinion to steer you right, if they’ve given both the negatives and positives of books.
I think one thing that gets forgotten about reviews–especially many of the internet review sites–is that the readers aren’t reading for execution, plot inconsistencies, and more technical issues. They just care if it’s a good story. That’s it. Did they love the characters? Did the story catch their attention? It was a good book. Those kind of reviews are the ones that give constant praise, because they literally don’t see the flaws.
This is just supposition, but I think that’s why some people (authors) don’t think other authors should review. Because the chances of having your warts out there for everyone to see and be dissected are more likely. I personally think there’s nothing wrong with other authors writing a review as long as it’s done without prejudice. Those can be some of the best reviews out there and for authors, could be a chance to get insight into your craft from one of their peers. But not everyone wants that. Some people would prefer to stick to the rah-rah comments and, if we’re honest, those are easier to deal with. Even if they don’t leave any room for growth and improvement :)
And Alison? It drives me insane when authors do what you said, give an analysis of a book but refuse to name it. Partly because of my natural curiosity (read nosiness) but also because, like you, I don’t understand what the point is. It prohibits anyone else from participating in the discussion or even benefiting from it (whether reader or author), it blocks any good conversations about craft that might arise, and it’s just irritating, lol!
by AngieW
on April 6th, 2006 at 7:55 am
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Oh…and about the designers that dis other designer’s shoes, they are just fun to watch being catty to each other. Besides, sometimes their tastes ARE rather fishy.
by little lamb lost
on April 6th, 2006 at 7:57 am
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I can understand why many authors are uncomfortable with saying anything bad about a fellow author’s books particularly when you know each other because of the emotional feelings invested in a creative product and many people immediately label it as bashing or as bad manners.
I feel if a review is constructively done (no personal attacks or inflammatory words, etc), a professional author should take it as feedback and not get carried away emotionally. Constructive criticism is how you can improve and feedback from a peer can sometimes contain insights you can’t get from a layman reader. As a reader, there are times when I feel constrained by reading discussion groups that doesn’t allow the voicing of any negative opinions. It presents a skewed picture when someone asks for opinions about a certain book and you can only mention the positive things but I also know a lot of flame wars occur because some readers cannot distinguish between constructive and personal criticism or can’t condone dissenting opinions.
by Jenny
on April 6th, 2006 at 8:12 am
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I don’t think there is anything wrong with authors reviewing other author’s books as long as the review is constructive. Everyone needs constructive criticism to grow, no matter how painful it may be to hear. Especially from their peers. Also, authors are readers as well. They don’t want to waste their time reading a book that is not so great anymore than we do.
I also hate it when people just say they hated a book or loved a book. I want to know why they loved it hated or it. Give me as many details as you can without giving away the whole story. Everybody’s opinion and tastes are different. It is kind of like when a movie reviewer gives his or her opinion on a movie. I can’t begin to count the many times a reviewer has said he disliked a move or liked it and my opinion has differed from theirs.
As for designers who dis other designer’s shoes, that is just laughable. Some of these famous designers have some rather questionable taste themselves.
by Cherie Japp
on April 6th, 2006 at 9:01 am
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As a reader, I like reviews that give a brief synopsis and an overall feeling for the book. I’m mostly interested in the pacing (does it move well), the dialogue (is it engaging), and the secondary characters (are they interesting). I don’t need a detailed analysis/disecting of the book. I like a balanced review which points out the negative and positive aspects of the book and then rates the book on a scale.
Everyone has different tastes and writers have different styles. I would prefer to read reviews written by readers instead of authors. Just my preference.
by Sandra M.
on April 6th, 2006 at 9:27 am
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I have no problem with authors reviewing other authors’ work. I believe that all reviews, regardless of who writes them, should be taken for what they are - a written opinion. Not everyone is going to share the same opinion. I might absolutely melt over a book that someone else can’t read past the third chapter. I write reviews and love doing so, and likewise enjoy reading reviews, but I rarely base my book buying on just a review. I doubt that other reviewers wear the same style clothes, drive the same car or have the same husband preference as me; that doesn’t make either of us wrong, just differing in opinion. I do agree that if a reviewer is going to totally bash a book, it should come with an explanation of why, it’s only fair to the author.
by Laurie
on April 6th, 2006 at 9:37 am
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I like book discussions but I don’t regard an author’s response more highly than a nonauthor’s. Everyone has different opinions and I like to read about them but I do not use them as my only source on whether I will read/purchase a book or not. I think an author has the right to be able to discuss another author’s book…as long as both pros and cons are invovled.
Cheri mentioned movies….I do NOT listen to reviews about movies. It’s either I enjoy the preview scenes and what the movie is about or I don’t. There has been to many times to count that movies have been given awards or were big blockbuster hits and I have asked “What for?”
by Patricia
on April 6th, 2006 at 10:06 am
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i don’t care one way or the other, i want to hear the author’s opinon and i can response to them. pLease don’t put into the contest, already have the book. Thanks love your blog!:smile:
by KIM H
on April 6th, 2006 at 10:22 am
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I like to hear different opinions on a book before I buy it. I want honest opinions and good reasons for their likes and dislikes and then I will make up my own mind as to whether I should buy it or not. It doesn’t matter to me if it is another author, reviewer or a reader who gives an opinion as long as it is their true feelings. What I don’t like is an author or a reviewer saying she loved a book just because it was written by a friend of hers.
by Carol
on April 6th, 2006 at 10:28 am
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I like book discussions and reviews. To me it doesn’t matter if the person is an author or a reader. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone also has different reading tastes. What one person hates, I may love. I don’t let the opinions of others sway me too much. I like to decide for myself if a book is worth reading and don’t base purchasing decisions on the opinions of others. I sometimes do buy a book after a recommendation from someone, but that is not my sole reason for the purchase. A lot of other factors help me decide whether or not a book is something that I would be interested in.
I mostly read reviews to find out more about the book (such as style, plot, characters, etc.) So I do like the reviews that offer a brief synopsis without revealing any major spoilers. I don’t like when a person just states that they liked or hated a book and doesn’t give any reasons (see that on Amazon sometimes). Oh and if someone is going to rant about not liking a book, they might as well name it. Why go to all that trouble?
by Jennifer Yates
on April 6th, 2006 at 12:02 pm
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It doesnt make a difference to me whether it be an author or reader reviewing a book. I like to hear all opinions and definitely like to hear a bit of the storyline.
Nothing wrong with constructive criticism. We can all use some of that from time to time I a sure. Dont think it professional for one author to criticize another or an actor criticize another fellow actor, etc. Just my opinion. Would rather hear a reader or a schoolteacher criticize a book than a fellow author. To each his own. I have never heard one author criticize another author’s book. Lucky I guess.
by Karen
on April 6th, 2006 at 12:17 pm
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I think if a person is uncomfortable mentioning the name of the book then said reviewer should just not bother to rant. If they are just talking in generalizations about what bothers them as a reader, ie. long separations or secret babies, then that’s one thing, but to dissect a book without naming it? Well, why rant in public then?
And personally, I could care less weather it’s an author or a reader doing a review, as long as the review is more than just a thumbs up or down. I like to know specifically what made the reviewer like/dislike the book. I’ve read negative reviews where I knew I’d probably like the book because I didn’t have the same hot buttons as the reviewer.
by Samantha
on April 6th, 2006 at 12:48 pm
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I enjoy book discussions. It doesn’t matter to me if a reviewer is an author or a reader. I don’t let others opinions sway my decision to buy a book. I think constructive criticism is a good thing but I don’t think a person should be malicious in her/his comments of a peer’s work. I find designers who diss each other’s line to be laughable.
by Crystal B.
on April 6th, 2006 at 1:27 pm
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Hi, everyone. Great discussion! I’m loving all of your input. Sorry I’m swamped and not participating much, but I’m reading everything with great interest - keep it up!
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I do review books on my blog sometimes–I need to keep up with it–and I hope I’m not too harsh on the books I do review. I don’t have time to review a lot, though, so I mostly review the ones I loved (aka the ones Everybody should love too).
I think that if a reviewer hates a book, and says so, then she/he should also at least try to find the good in the book. Though sometimes it’s hard.
And don’t put me in the draw either, Alison.
by May
on April 6th, 2006 at 2:47 pm
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Like book discussions. Personally if you don’t like a book, don’t talk about it. I just couldn’t trash any book.
by Joyce
on April 6th, 2006 at 7:38 pm
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I really like book discussions!!:smile: It doesn’t matter to me if you are an author or not…I still enjoy hearing opinions about a book. Both pros, cons, and why. An opinion will not make me read a book or not read a book but it does gives me something to consider about a book…I hope that make sense:smile:
by Kathleen
on April 6th, 2006 at 9:25 pm
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I am with Joyce. I would never trash a book during a book discussion.
I love book discussion to find new additions to my TBB list and for me it doesn’t matter if the recommendation comes from a reader or an author.
by Danny
on April 7th, 2006 at 3:20 am
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Hi Alison,
I love book discussions and reviews. There is nothing better than a discussion and a review that does a book full justice. I doesn’t matter whether the person initiating the discussion is an author or a reader. Authors are avid readers, too, they say it all the time so it is only logical that they share the opinions about the books they love reading. All of us eat other people cooking and comment about it so why not read books and do the same. :grin:
I think if one has written a good book it would generate good reviews and a good book is all that you need for a person to sing out its praise. I can’t pick hairs so I am content with discussing the important points a book has.
I think a contemporary authore reviewing a romantic suspense or a comedy would make him/her a reader and readers are known to be good and sympathetic :oops: Does that make any sense?
by Mahaira
on April 7th, 2006 at 4:19 am
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Hi Alison,
I want to know if someone truly likes or dislikes a book and WHY!! There are so many books and so little time. … If I can find a reviewer with similar likes and dislikes to mine… I WILL take her future reviews more seriously, and be more likely to read something that she recommends.
I could care less if the reviewer is an author! They are a person with a valuable opinion just like anybody else!.
As for book discussions, I want the positive and the negative. I want to compare the views: …why I maybe liked a book a lot where someone else absolutely hated it. That’s why you go! You want to hear what others felt/thought about the story, the characters, the theme, the location…why they liked it or didn’t find it believable.
Please name the book that you are praising or criticizing! Come On this is the 21st century! The author has put the book out there and is expecting to get paid for the effort. Whether an author has written 1 book or 10…it doesn’t mean its GREAT!
If someone likes or dislikes a book give an “honest” opinion.
by Laurie G
on April 7th, 2006 at 5:14 am
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I think authors writing reviews makes perfect sense because they know about writing a book and they can write so the review will include what I want know. Not being willing to name a book but being willing to write negative comments about the book is something I don’t agree with. Name the book so others are able to either agree or disagree with you. Reviews are subjective so you can’t necessarily rely upon them. What one person loves another doesn’t care for but I do like reading reviews if they give you a good idea of the story.
by Maureen
on April 7th, 2006 at 5:28 am
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I like reading reviews from the authors and readers. The more reviews I read good or bad tells me if I want to read the book or not. I find that if one person doesn’t like a book that doesn’t mean that I won’t. So I will read a few other reviews before I make up my mind.
by Tammy G.
on April 7th, 2006 at 8:30 am
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I love book discussions and reviews too. It don’t care if you are an author or reader I just want honest reviews and the reasons that the reviewer likes or dislikes the book.
I have to admit that I have some favorite asuthors (Alison you are one of them:grin:) and no matter what the review is I’ll buy the book.
by Susan
on April 7th, 2006 at 10:31 am
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So, what do you all consider to be “trashing” a book? If you say you would never trash a book, does that mean you would never honestly point out what didn’t work for you as a reader? Or does trashing simply mean, “This book sucked, don’t waste your time or your money. And the author is fat and ugly, too.” :)
I want to hear what may not work for a reader. I’ve had a couple of comments recently on one of my books that made me stop and realize that I had *not* executed a plot point as well as I should have. That’s constructive to me. It helps me become a better writer. I would never put a book out there and think there was nothing about it that could be made better. :) Of course, it’s too late once it’s on the shelves, but still it’s helpful for what I write down the road.
Thing is, authors are pretty smart puppies, and we can tell the difference between someone just wanting to rip us up because we hit all their hot buttons or didn’t give them the story they wanted and someone who finds true flaws and wants to talk about them!
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I think book discussion groups are great, it doesn’t matter to me if its an author or reader that intiates it. I take what a author has to say about a book more seriously because they write and know what a great book it is by experience. I think if a author diss’ another authors book it is unprofessional. If they say whats wrong with it or what they didn’t like constructively about it, then thats better. I’ve checked out Paperback Reader a few times and thought there reviews were good.
by Dena
on April 7th, 2006 at 11:24 am
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Alison,
I would honestly point out what I don’t like at the book, but I never would say that this is the worst book that I ever read or that the author should better stop writing etc. That’s what I call trashing.
by Danny
on April 7th, 2006 at 11:44 am
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Constructive criticism is okay. I consider “trashing” to call a book the worst ever or say you hated it without giving reasons. I, personally, would offer an honest review, but I would try to find some positive things to say too (if possible…if not, I wouldn’t say anything at all…that is just who I am). I have never read a book where there was not at least one positive thing about the book that I liked. I could and would not be overly harsh. Since I am just a reader, I could not really point ways they could have done it better or something like that, but I could say what worked and didn’t work for me as a reader.
I don’t think you should ever attack an author personally just because you don’t like his or her book. In reviews, you should discuss the book not the author (unless it has something to do with writing style or previous books).
by Jennifer Yates
on April 7th, 2006 at 1:15 pm
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It doesn’t matter to me whether the review comes from an author or a reader as long as it mentions what they liked and disliked about the book. There are only a few places that I look at reviews. One of them is Paperback Reader. Often I find myself saying “Kudos to you for posting your honest thoughts. Good or bad.” So few reviewers do. Most of what I see on other sites is not actually a review but a blurb or sypnosis labeled a review. If I know the site, blog or person only mentions the positive then I don’t even read it. It doesn’t help me as a reader at all. I don’t see anything wrong with posting something you didn’t like in a book if an explanation is with it. I thought that was what reviewing was all about. Most of the lists don’t allow real discussions of books so many of my recommendations come from reader chats or off-list emails.
by KimW
on April 7th, 2006 at 3:21 pm
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Trashing a book, for me, is when the reviewer starts talking about the author and not the book. Trashing a book is when the reviewer goes “I hate it. It’s utterly crap/rubbish, should never have been published and in fact, the author should never have picked up a pen!” without explaining why.
I would have said not giving justification for not liking the book as trashing a book, but that’s not fair. Sometimes the book and you just aren’t meant to be, and sometimes, that’s all you have to say.
I would like to add that the worst books to review are the ones that are blah. The ones that could have been fantastic with a little more work here, and there and everywhere.
by May
on April 7th, 2006 at 4:02 pm
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I feel that an honest review of any book is important. Many of us depend on those reviews to let us know if the book will interest us enough to keep us involved in it. I think that an author needs to know how to handle the criticism of their books because just as in everyday life, we all learn from our mistakes. Even though in a book review it may not be a mistake, the author is still learning the different ideas and things that different readers like and dislike. I hope that authors can take the reviews and use it in future writings. It could help them to broaden their audience and fan group. I don’t see where it really matters if the reviewer is an author or not. In all actuality authors do read other authors books too which makes them a reader just like the rest of us.
by Billie L
on April 7th, 2006 at 4:42 pm
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If I were to “trash” a book I would do it politely:… I didn’t feel that the chemistry was there between…,or I thought these two should have done this… or the other author’s books appealed to me more because…..
Any time you dislike something it’s only your opinion. Definitely be constructive of why it didn’t work for you but don’t just say nasty things because you’re having a bad day!
by Laurie G
on April 8th, 2006 at 6:18 am
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Trashing to me means saying something like this is the worst book I ever read and no one should waste their money on it. I think just telling why you personally didn’t care for it is ok. Someone else may like the book for the same reasons you disliked it. Everyone doesn’t like the same thing. That’s why there are so many different kinds of books out there for us to choose from.
by Carol
on April 8th, 2006 at 9:52 am
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Okay, I can no longer resist jumping into this discussion. 
Although I don’t necessarily use them for my own personal reading selection, I’m a review junkie. I read reviews from professional journals to help me select books to add to my library’s collection, and I read both author and reader reviews to assist me in providing reader advisory services to my patrons. The more detailed a reviewer is on why they like/dislike a book, the more help they are to me as a reader advisor. And let me whole heartedly agree with everyone who hates it when the person reviewing the book refuses to actually name it. That is pointless and evil. :evil:
I will own up to the fact that 99% of the books I talk about on my blog are talked about in a positive manner. For one thing, I refuse to finish a book I hate. If I’m not liking it 50 pages in, there is no way I’m finishing it and I will not be talking about it on my blog. Also, as a librarian when I read a book I am always thinking in the back of my mind, “Which of my patrons would like this? What kind of reader would I recommend this too?” I know that regardless of whatever likes/dislikes I have as a reader, I’m bound to have a patron who is going to love the book, and that in some respect has impacted the way I now talk about books.
I think (or at least I hope) that I am upfront about that with the people who read my blog, and that they know what to expect from me when I’m talking about books. I think the same could be said of a lot of the review blogs/websites out there, and we as readers pick and choose the ones we visit (and thus the ones we actually pay attention to) based on how they handle their reviews.
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What do you think about book discussions?
I like reading book discussions. I don’t have time to investigate or try out all the authors that have books out there. I consider it my Consumer Report for books. And like the consumer reports they are not the “be all or end all” of book opinions. I use it as guideline for deciding which books I would get.
Does it matter to you if the person initiating the discussion is an author or a reader?
No, it doesn’t matter as long as the books is discussed objectively. Sometimes, a fave author will discuss a book and I would give it a try thinking that it wold be similar to how they write and what I like to read. Doesn’t always happen that way.
Does you think authors who diss other authors’ books are acting unprofessionally?
If the “dissing’ is done in a constructive way and stays objective, I would say no. In my previous job, we would have peer reviews that are incorporated in our annual performance evaluations. This may fall under this umbrella
What about designers who diss other designers’ shoes?
Are they shoe designers as well? that falls under peer review. Are they dress designers–I’ll be snooty here and say they probably have big feet and can’t fit in those sexy little strapless heels. 
by marelou
on April 8th, 2006 at 2:37 pm
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I haven’t had time to read all of the comments, so I apologize if I just go on with something that’s already been said several times.
Nothing drives me more insane than to read a post that doesn’t name the book the poster is talking about.
What do you think about book discussions? I enjoy book discussions, usually only if I’ve previously read the book though.
Does it matter to you if the person initiating the discussion is an author or a reader? No, it really doesn’t because essentialy aren’t we all readers anyway (even if you’re an author)?
Do you think authors who diss other authors’ books are acting unprofessionally? No, I don’t. Like I said before, regardless of whether or not this person is an author, they are still a reader. As long as there are credible reasons behind the dissing, explanations are given, thoughts are explained in full.
by Valeen
on April 8th, 2006 at 9:19 pm
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Must say that “trashing a book” is not the same as constructive criticism in my view. People have different tastes and there maybe some things in a book that are not what one person enjoys reading. I don’t think that it is unfair for a reviewer to state that or to mention what it was about a character or part of the plot that did not work for him/her. Saying that a book is worthless with no redeeming features and that the author of said book should search for different means to employ time would be trashing.
by little lamb lost
on April 9th, 2006 at 4:46 am
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No sense in discussing a book and not mentioning the name of it. I think it is fine if a discussion is started by an author. I don’t think that is unprofessional if they like to read. I have not seen anything that could be labeled trashing.
by Karen G
on April 9th, 2006 at 12:26 pm
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Hi Alison!
I have no problem with authors as reviewers, as most authors are avid readers. They also might have a better understanding of where the writer is coming from. I personally do not write negative or critical reviews. I try to point out what I liked about the book, and what worked for me. Honesty is very important to me, as neither reader nor author gains from a lie. If I cannot find anything good about a book, I usually pass on reviewing it. That is just my preference. I do not see anything wrong with constructive criticism, as long as it is in fact constructive. It does bother me to see bashing, because to me it is only hurtful to all involved.
by Zara
on April 9th, 2006 at 3:13 pm
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Or does trashing simply mean, “This book sucked, don’t waste your time or your money. And the author is fat and ugly, too.”
Lol. Yeah, I would definitely call that trashing! Constructive to me would be as you mentioned, stating what did not work for you. It could be stating what you would have preferred to have seen instead.
by Zara
on April 9th, 2006 at 3:20 pm
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I have no problem with critical reviews or negative comments about a book — any book — my book…by a reader or professional reviewer. Hey, every book of mine reviewed by Mrs. Giggles or All About Romance was reviewed because I SENT them the books. I like their sites, I like their reviews. With Mrs. Giggles–I think an anthology I was in got like a 37 or something…but I continued to send books because she’s a talented, sharp, entertaining reviewer. Same with AAR…it wasn’t like I got good reviews and kept sending them, my first review from them was a D-. Ack! Couldn’t do much but go uphill from there…lol…
One more thing I like about AAR…one of their main reviewers immediately resigned as a reviewer when she sold. She recused herself because she felt it was inappropriate to review her competition–and so did the owner of the site.
Which leads to my point…I do have a problem with published authors reviewing books by other published authors. Sorry. I just don’t think somebody should be reviewing their competition in a public forum. That’s how I see it–I just can never read an author written review without wondering if the reviewer had an ax to grind, was a couple of slots lower on a bestseller list recently…didn’t sell to the editor author x sold to…heard that author x said this about author y who is their critique partner. Or was just jealous for some other reason.
The whole situation is just too open to personal issues and biases. I’d like to think most authors would not succumb to this–and that’s true in most cases. But it’s *not* true in all cases.
I mean, I don’t hear about Stephen King reviewing a Dean Koontz book or vice versa. I’ve never read a review of an Iris Johanssen thriller written by Tami Hoag. Just as you wouldn’t read a review of a new Ford product by a Chevy exec.
Some other genre of book? Yeah, maybe, but your direct competitor? Sorry…I just don’t see it as appropriate. Not at the megastar level. Not at my little nobody level.
And finally, the romance fiction industry, despite the number authors, is an *incredibly* small community. Everybody knows everybody. Everybody talks. There’s a lot of loyalty between friends and catty backstabbing between enemies. Honestly, I think a reviewer-author can be shooting themselves in the foot if they rip apart the wrong book and offend that author and alllllll her friends. And, by the way, her editor! (Um, I have personal knowledge of this one. I know an editor who will NEVER buy a particular author because that author has publicly slammed the editor’s authors & basically said their books shouldn’t have been published. Uh, EXCUSE ME? You really think the editor who bought those books is going to buy you after that???)
If a good friend of NYT bestselling author A is ripped to shreds by author/reviewer x and someday author/reviewer x wants a cover quote, or wants to do an anthology, or a miniseries, or in any way interact with NYT bestselling author…hmm–what do you think the answer will be?
Obviously in the minority here, but thought I’d throw in another perspective.
Leslie Kelly
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I mean, I don’t hear about Stephen King reviewing a Dean Koontz book or vice versa. I’ve never read a review of an Iris Johanssen thriller written by Tami Hoag. Just as you wouldn’t read a review of a new Ford product by a Chevy exec.
It is done, though, a lot. NYT Book Reviews. LA Times Book Reviews. Many are written by authors reviewing in their own field.
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Alison, you are absolutely right, authors do review authors in major publications. But I would really like to see where James Patterson ripped up a David Baldacci novel. Or Stephen King ripped apart one by Thomas Harris. Now, I’ve read *raves* Stephen King has writen about Thomas Harris books, and Peter Straub books. But a shred job of another writer who is a DIRECT competitor? No. I have never seen that. If you have, I’d love to read it.
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I’m only talking about critical discussions, not ripping up any books. I think dissecting and discussing craft elements can be done without ripping and bashing. I’m not going to do it because I have too much trouble figuring out this stuff for myself, but I just consider it another form of peer review and personally don’t have a problem with it!
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Sorry, but I’ve got to agree with Leslie. I think it’s ridiculous. What makes the writer/reviewer an expert? Who says their books are so perfect that they can sit in judgment of another author? I find it incredibly distasteful. And frankly, as an author myself…my big question is always, “what the hell do I know?” I know what I like as a reader the same as any other, but as a writer, I’m instantly bestowed with an illusion of more “expertise” that maybe I don’t deserve. I mean, are all my books perfect? No. So who am I to sit in judgment of someone else? Who am I to possibly keep EVEN ONE READER from buying that other author’s books?
I value reader reviews above all others. STRICTLY readers. No axe to grind, no delusions of grandeur–just a reader giving an honest appraisal. But all writers know that we are rarely “just readers” anymore once we’ve started writing seriously. Our outlook changes.
And I thought I’d mention here that unpublished writers or aspiring writers who trash published books are doing themselves a disservice. My editors read reviews…and those names stick with them if the reviewer has been unfair or cruel. It’s one thing to give a negative review…one I read recently by an unpublished writer on her blog was snide, cruel and superior. I don’t like any reviews that take that tone, but to come from another writer? Ridiculous.
by Julie Leto
on April 9th, 2006 at 10:01 pm
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(You guys are just trying to win my book, aren’t you? :) )
This is about critically discussing a book. I’ve read a lot that don’t work for me. (Well, that’s not true because I usually don’t finish those!) It has nothing to do with expertise or experience. It’s about a story meeting a reader’s expectations - whether that reader writes or not.
I don’t buy that we lose our right to discuss a book that fails for us as a reader just because we write. Neither do I buy that it’s damaging to us to critically discuss it.
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I held out as long as I could…
I understand the concern Leslie and Julie express. Many others say it too, so these ladies are not alone. I do disagree with the sentiment, however. I review romance novels. I have never said that I’m an expert. I’m not grinding an axe or anything else. I don’t view this as a competition where I’m in a position to ruin the sales numbers of other writers.
The reality is this: I love this genre. I love that authors are selling and growing and doing well. I love that authors are breaking out all the time - some who have been writing for a long time and hit it big, and some who start out big. I read all the time. I read second books when I didn’t like an author’s first just to see. I read genres I don’t love because I want to be wowed. When I review I try not to be personal. And - I can’t stress this enough - I HATE when I don’t like a book. I want to love every single one.
With all of that, I’ve never understood why, since I’ve sold some books, I shouldn’t review. There appears to be a suggestion (not specifically here, but I’ve heard it before), that by selling, I’ve lost my ability to speak rationally and honestly about books. I guess I’m just trying to figure out why that’s the case. Why the bright line standard? And, yeah, Alison is right. In other genres authors review fellow authors all the time. Why is romance different?
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HelenKay - I have been searching your blog for the comments Tod G made about the LA Times (I think ) book review and the others done by peers. But I can’t find it anywhere, argh!
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I’ll buy your book, Alison!
We’re going to have to agree to disagree, I suppose.
I’m reading a book right now that is a New York Times bestseller (several weeks on the list), that readers are buying in droves, that reviews are glowing on…and I am not enjoying it. Could I “critically discuss” this book and tell you why I don’t like it? Of course I can. Would I? No way. What would it serve? Clearly, my opinion doesn’t mean squat. Readers LOVE this book. I don’t. Cest la vie! Why should I risk offending this author by posting my opinion somewhere? What is that opinion worth? Nada, imo.
If readers want to talk about books, I say have at it. But I think there is a conflict of interest for an author doing it. I always will…I’ll rave about a book I loved in public, but I’ll never rant and name names. I just won’t.
Anyway, that’s my opinion on the matter.
by Julie Leto
on April 9th, 2006 at 10:29 pm
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Could I “critically discuss” this book and tell you why I don’t like it? Of course I can. Would I? No way. What would it serve? Clearly, my opinion doesn’t mean squat. Readers LOVE this book. I don’t.
What didn’t work for you may have been what I as an author struggled with (if this were my NYT book *g*). I may have thought I conquered it, but failed. Readers may be buying me by name, grimacing when they read that part - but you just might be the one to point out to me one area that would help me to improve. And that’s the purpose it would serve. That’s why I think authors discussing books is a great thing - whether wearing a reader hat or an author hat.
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Did someone raise the Tod Goldberg search light? Feat not, I’ve arrived. I’m not sure of the comment you’re speaking of, though I’ve written on this topic quite a bit, and have had occassion to talk about as it relates to romance, too, for a lot of the reasons you’re talking about here. I frequently hear complaints about this very author-reviewing-author business being of some disrepute, but then I also hear many romance authors, in particular, complaining about how they can’t get reviewed in the NY Times or the LA Times or papers of their ilk and my point as it relates to both is that if you want your work taken seriously, and reviewed seriously, it’s often done by peers in both outlets. There was a comment above about being unable to imagine X book reviewed by X author of similar status and I have to wonder what book reviews these folks are reading — this is more the norm than the aberration. In the LA Times, for instance, top crime writers Paula Woods, Denise Hamilton and Phillip Margolin have all reviewed books by their peers in recent memory (and that’s just off the top of my head). In fact, the preponderance of book reviews in the NY Times, LA Times, WaPo. are done by authors , both for fiction and nonfiction, because frequently the best person to review is a person considered an expert in the field. Should I review the latest Jennifer Crusie novel? Probably not, as I know nothing about the genre, other than it’s wrong that I’m reviewing the book since I’m an author as well. But should I review a book of short stories? A book of literary fiction? A crime novel? Sure, because I have what can be considered a modicum of expertise. And as for the assertion that most of these reviews by authors are either done for favortisim or spite, well, then how does one account for the fact that the major newspapers ALL hire other authors to write book reviews? The fact is, these things are vetted. Even if you have a small asssociation with the person, a newspaper will ask you to clarify it. It’s called journalistic integrity.
Don’t believe me? Sitting on my desk, I have three different book review sections from the last month or so. Here’s how they breakdown:
Washington Post (March 12th): Number of reviews 12
Number reviewed by authors: 7
Number reviewed by journalists/editors of trade magazines that focus on the subject of the book: 3
(The rest are by book review staff)
LA Times (March 26)
Number of reviews: 8
Number reviewed by authors: 4 (including, uh, me)
Number reviewed by prominent journalists/editors of trade magazines that focus on the subject: 2
(the rest are reviewed by the staff)
NY Times (March 26)
Number of reviews: 20
Number reviewed by authors: 15 (including Joyce Carol Oates on Antonya Nelson)
Number reviewed by prominent journalists/editors: 3
(the rest are reviewed by the staff).
So, you have the three largest and preeminent book reviews in the country and they are each primarily penned by authors…so, clearly, the idea that authors reviewing authors isn’t naturally fraught with the assumption of impropriety. In the last year, I’ve reviewed, oh, 25 books for different publications and I have absolutely no fear that any negative review I’ve written will impact the sale of my next novel. Why? Because peer review is the essence of literary criticism. If you have integrity, you’re reviewing the book, not the person, and in general that’s what newspapers look for. You want romance reviews in major papers? Expect to see your friends’ names on them, for better or worse.
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Oh, and if someone wants to see a write of equal measure take down another, here’s a link to Colson Whitehead ripping Richard Ford in two - Or Sherman Alexie on Ian Frazier
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Tod speaks eloquently on this topic, so I should let his words stand and move on…but I won’t. I am fine with the agree-to-disagree philosophy. However, I would suggest that using words like “ridiculous” when talking about romance authors reviewing other romance authors, and talking positively about retribution by editors and fellow authors when an author reviewer says something negative, is something other than agreeing to disagree. It is something other than simply saying I can respect your opinion even though I disagree with it.
This is part of what I don’t understand about this issue: romance authors frequently (and justifiably) complain that they get reviews that amount to personal attacks. Yet, when saying authors shouldn’t review, the argument sounds like a personal attack. It goes like this: you must have an angle, you can’t be neutral or honest without having your own needs interfere, you’re trying to promote your book over others and you’re ruining the genre - so, you deserve whatever negativity and ill will comes your way from authors and editors. To me, that sounds pretty darn personal. There is no allowance for the fact that an author could review other romance works out of a love for the genre and a desire to promote it. The only spin is negative. And, the “you deserve to be blacklisted by fellow authors and editors” thing makes me crazed. I don’t expect praise and a book contract when I like a book by a particular author. I’m not sure why I deserve wrath when the opposite is true.
On the issue of I-just-read-a-book-and-didn’t-like-it-so-I-won’t-say-anything - that’s your choice. That’s also very different from reviewing. That’s a book preference issue. You’re reading just for you and for enjoyment, not to review it. Those are two very different beasts.
Why don’t Tami Hoag and Sandra Brown say negative things about other books? Honestly, I’m not sure I’ve heard them say positive things either. Maybe they don’t have an inclination to review. Maybe they don’t have the time. Maybe, like some authors, they don’t read within the genre they write because of their own writing issues or out of fear of being accused of plagarism. We don’t know. The point is (as Tod points out) many reviews are done by authors. This is accepted in other genres without the reviewers having to fear getting pelted with dinner rolls at an annual writing convention.
Stephen King - as with most things he does - is in a different category. Yes, he does praise books. Years ago I picked up A SIMPLE PLAN and GRAVITY based on his recommendations. He also writes a column for Entertainment Weekly and does, in fact, speak negatively about books (and everything else) in there. My guess is that no one questions his integrity or neutrality because he is such an outspoken proponent of popular fiction. He gets the benefit of the doubt. Others don’t.
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HelenKay, I’m not talking about reviewing in general. I’m talking about TRASHING. I’m talking about one author attacking another author and her book, making comments in sneering jest, taking a superior attitude that the reviewer is a better author than the one whose book is being “reviewed.” I haven’t read your reviews so I do not know if you are inclined to write this way, but I’ve seen other people do it and it perplexes me. Do I think those people deserve the negative karma they are building? Doesn’t matter what I think…fact is, it’s a reality that this industry is very small and “retribution” happens.
Maybe we’re talking apples and oranges. I don’t know…but maybe what you see as an honest review I’d see as an snarky attack. I don’t mind snarky attacks from Mrs. Giggles because that’s her schtick. But from another author, I’d expect better.
That’s all I’m saying. If an author MUST review, I believe they have an added responsibility to be fair and balanced, reasoned and objective. Moreso than a reader reviewer. If they do come from a place of more expertise, then show it and keep the fangs retracted. As for Sandra Brown or Tami Hoag–don’t they provide blurbs? Don’t publishers go nuts for an author to get quotes from these industry heavyweights? Yeah, they do…which reflects my assertion that an author’s “review” is weightier than one by a reader and should, therefore, be treated with more care and responsibility.
It’s my choice to not post a negative review of a book with a name attached. If you wish to do so, that’s your choice. But all choices have consequences and I think it would behoove the author/reviewer to take care in how they word things and not trash a book and an author and possibly someone’s career in a way that can come back to bite them.
by Julie Leto
on April 10th, 2006 at 7:47 am
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But all choices have consequences and I think it would behoove the author/reviewer to take care in how they word things and not trash a book and an author and possibly someone’s career in a way that can come back to bite them.
This is what I will never agree with. That an honest discussion of a book - even in a negative connotation, not a “I hate your hero so you must be a man hater,” sort of trashing - can hurt an author’s career - or that an editor would be that petty. My entire point in the post was that honest critical discussions are a part of literary review - and we do not have them in romance. Period. We have RT with cavemen on the covers. We have the lovefests where board moderators halt discussions the minute a bad word is mentioned. Our genre doesn’t hit the venues that other popular fiction does. Why? And could this be one of the big reasons romance gets so little respect. Can I hazard a guess that it’s a part? That authors like the one that posted to a blog (and inspired my post) about a book that didn’t work for her yet wouldn’t name it is part of the problem? Fear of being “mean” or whatever? Why even bring it up?
Tod mentioned Denise Hamilton. I’m a HUGE fangirl (her new book is due out next week YAY), and Denise is actually going to guest blog with me later this week. (SO excited!) And Phillip Margolin? Why can these authors review their peers in the major outlets, but romance authors for the most part seem to get all squicky and automatically assume a review by a peer is going to be a trashfest? Why do big name romance authors not review if big name mystery/suspense/crime authors can do it? What does that say about our genre?
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maybe the romance quip of “written by women, for women” should be expanded to include “because women can’t take the mean” …
by Anon
on April 10th, 2006 at 11:09 am
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Dena, Patricia, and Sandra M are the winners of UNDRESSED!
by Alison Kent
on April 10th, 2006 at 11:21 am
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Congrats Dena, Patricia and Sandra!
Carol
by Carol
on April 10th, 2006 at 11:34 am
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wtg ladies.
by KIM H
on April 10th, 2006 at 12:00 pm
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Big congrats Dena, Patricia, and Sandra M!!!
by Danny
on April 10th, 2006 at 12:15 pm
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I’m going to stop posting now because Alison, you’re ignoring what I’m saying. I have NO PROBLEM with negative reviews per se, but I don’t think that they should be trashfests. You can have a discussion and not like a book without trashing the author.
And trust me, Anon, I can take the mean. Go check out Mrs. Giggles. Coming from a reader, it doesn’t bother me. But from another author, it seems to have another agenda or else it’s simply not professional courtesy. I’ve read enough literary criticism in my day to know that you can be critical without being dismissive or cruel.
by Julie Leto
on April 10th, 2006 at 12:20 pm
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I’m going to stop posting now because Alison, you’re ignoring what I’m saying.
No, not really. :) Your first comment here when agreeing with Leslie
(quoting Leslie: “Which leads to my point…I do have a problem with published authors reviewing books by other published authors. Sorry. I just don’t think somebody should be reviewing their competition in a public forum.)
simply said authors shouldn’t review the works of authors, saying it was ridiculous and distasteful - you never mentioned trashing, Leslie never mentioned trashing, you both simply said that reviewing by authors shouldn’t be done.
by Alison Kent
on April 10th, 2006 at 12:37 pm
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As an addendum to the above - Julie did mention trashing in a second comment to HelenKay, but not in the first. So I think we do agree that critical literary reviews of one author’s work can be done by another author without prejudice and without sinister motives. And we also agree that trashing or bashing is not a critical review. Ergo, (love that word) I believe we are on the same side of the fence. Or not. ;)
by Alison Kent
on April 10th, 2006 at 1:26 pm
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Note after finishing : ACK–ignore this first sentence. This is NOT succinct.
>>
Oh, wow, this is an interesting topic and I could probably go on and on about it but I will try to be succinct. (not my strong suit)
First, Tod, let’s look at this head to head. LA Times, NY Times, etc. are publications with editorial directors, lots of oversight and checks and balances. I do not know the process, but I would assume they choose which books they’d like reviewed by a certain author. Is that right? So I would also assume that there would naturally be a system in place so that midlist mystery author x isn’t reviewing midlist mystery author y when they both have midlist mystery novels coming somewhere around the same time, competing for slots in the big box stores. And I would further assume that only a complete idiot anthor/reviewer would forget for one minute that he/she was writing for the NYT, who will scrutinize his every word and sniff out any possible conflict of interest or self-serving review. He/she would be held accountable and likely not invited back. That’s not even including the possibility that if he/she was less than impartial with a direct competitor, he/she is just asking for contempt or criticism from his peers and crossover readers who will probably be quick to sniff out any self-serving elements of his review and call it sour grapes. There’s a big level of accountability there.
Is that a (basically) correct assumption?
Now what about author x who pays a hundred bucks, registers the name imaromanceexprt.com and proceeds to review books. Books that are in direct competition with his/her own. Books that are in the stores at the same time, competing for the same $6.50 out of a reader’s pocket for the brief 3-4 week span that they’re are on the shelves in those big box stores.
There is no editorial oversight. There is no major publication looking over their shoulder to ensure accuracy or fairness, no one watching out for possible conflict of interest or someone just having an ax to grind. There’s just an author dissecting a book (sometimes in as shitty a tone as possible) on a blog.
Do you really see these two situations as apples/apples? I don’t.
That is my objection. I do not believe the two situations are comparable. If the NYT or major publications want to start reviewing romance and have romance authors do the reviewing, fabulous. Have at it. Because I would expect that they would institute some serious checks and balances the same way they do for all other books, one of which would be that authors are not given the chance to affect sales of a book that they, themselves, are battling against side-by-side on store shelves that very same week.
That is NOT what happens with an author just ripping a book apart on a website or a blog where people do tend to go a little far as if they forget that thousands of people out there really might be reading their words. It’d be nice to think that every reviewer/author would be 100% fair and impartial, but come on, we’re human beings…we know it won’t happen every time. (Look at the Rita’s for crying out loud! All Blaze/Brava = porn, anyone?! Alison, you are sooo acquainted with this, how can you not have the same concerns with the reviewing process that you have with the Rita judging? Aren’t SOME OF THEM potentially the same people with the same axes to grind???)
Alison, you, Julie and I all write for the same publisher and the same line. It has not happened yet, but it’s not inconceivable that one month we could all be out at the same time. We’re certainly close this year–Julie in August, me in October, you in November…of course, you know I stayed in October by the skin of my teeth, so I could easily have ended up with you in November.
So, uh, even if we weren’t all friends, would you really get on your blog and give even a “constructively worded” crappy review of our books? Wouldn’t that feel the least bit self-serving? And in a purely business/self-preservation sense, what do you think our editors & publisher would say? Maybe some wouldn’t care, but you can bet some would and I bet they have the same attitude I do: I am a firm believer that you just don’t shit where you eat.
Like Julie, I wouldn’t want to review books while wearing my author hat. Who the hell am I to tell people what’s good and what’s not? Just because I’ve sold some books absolutely does not make me an expert on other people’s! Where the heck would I get off thinking I could “help” another author “improve” his books or writing…isn’t that implying, or acting on the assumption that I know more/am more talented/am better than that author? Uh…bullshit. Novel writing isn’t a graded test. One author doesn’t have the right answers over another. So the whole idea of “constructively helping another author improve” is one of the worst justifications about this. And a public reviewing forum is one of the worst places to do it because like it or not, published authors do for some reason have more “weight.” Not that they should…they just do.
Alison, you’re a brilliant writer. I have admired your talent for a very very VERY long time. Do I think there are things you could do better? Maybe. Maybe not. Would I go into a public forum and say why you did this wrong and how you should improve it next time because I know best? Absolutely not. I repeat…who the hell am I?
Plus, I have changed as a reader since I started writing. I’m a lot more critical of the wrong things, I spend too much time evaluating how an author constructed a sentence I liked, or else counting the number of times he or she repeated a particular word on a single page until I’m subconsciously looking for it in every paragraph. Or thinking how I would have done something differently. So much so that I sometimes can’t see the story for the words. I can’t always enjoy a book the way I could as a reader (which makes me sad, actually.) It’s why I don’t read romance anymore because I am always analyzing it instead of savoring, and I tend to do that less in other genres. So, you know, maybe I’d be a good person to talk to about the latest Christopher Moore book…I’m dying to share my feelings about it with someone. But the last Leanne Banks one that was out with me at the same time in September? No flippin way, even if I had read it.
Besides, personally, I don’t think the average joe reader gives a flying snot about how many times an author used a particular word on a page or how well constructed the third sentence on page 82 was or how the author betrayed their theme by having character x do this. They want to laugh or cry, to fall in love with the characters and to be swept along by tension and adventure or solve the crime or see the serial killer’s insanity slowly unfold and his malevolence drip off the page. They read for the pleasure it brings them. Which is why I value strictly reader reviews more than anything else.
HelenKay, I like your site. I like your reviews. I like the point/counterpoint format which is very similar to the Pandora’s Box at AAR (which, by the way, I requested & got on my first s.t.) As I said in my first post, I’m not afraid of bad reviews. I’m one of the most non-emotional, non-sentimental, smart-ass women you’ll meet. I can be a raving bitch and have often been accused of riding roughshod over other people’s feelings. (My husband and I are convinced he was the girl and I was soooo the guy in our last life.) So I was tickled pink when the Smart Bitches got ahold of one of my books–I adore that site. And, as I said, I consistently send my books at my own expense to Mrs G in Malaysia, and to AAR! So honestly, when you negatively reviewed one of mine, I at first didn’t know you were a pubbed author writing sexy contemporary romance and kinda did a pfft, whatever, another good one, another bad one…just get my name and the title out there so the book sells. Then when I found out, I thought, okay, our books are out months and months apart, different publishers, different formats, it’s not like she’s trying to rip the competition. Whatever.
But let me ask you…are you going to review Lori Foster’s next Brava? Alison’s? Erin McCarthy’s? Whatever Brava title you’re out against this summer? And if so and you just hated it and say so…uh…what do you think Kensington’s going to say? What do you think Brava readers are going to think? Do you really think every Lori Foster reader isn’t going to read that review and form their own (perhaps negative) opinion about why you wrote it?
And if you won’t review them…why not? If it’s fine and you are 100% sure there’s nothing wrong with reviewing your competition, then absolutely any book should be fair game, and nothing should be held back, right? Have you evaluated that yourself? Not being snarky here at all, I’m just wondering how deeply you’ve thought about it. Have you set boundaries…do you even see the need for them?
Finally, “Anon” this conversation has nothing to do with anyone being “mean” and is strictly about business. At the end of the day, reviewing your own close competition still doesn’t seem like a wise thing to me. That’s all, just my little opinion and who gives a flaming crap what I think, anyway? I’m not out there screaming it all over cyberspace, I’ve never even talked about it before. I just felt compelled to say something this time because I’ve seen this issue come up so many times on other blogs and it seems like there’s a whole lot of blog-nodding about it. But there’s a very large, (very quiet) number of authors out here who feel like I do, but they’re too scared of getting blogified to open their mouths in a public forum because the whole “romance writers just want fan girls and nicey-nice feedback and can’t take criticism” comments–or worse–will come flying at their heads.
Okay, that was in NO way succinct. And I am 100% certain my opinions have not/will not change a single person’s mind, nor am I trying to. Just trying to answer questions about why some authors feel this way. Hopefully those of you who disagree with me–which you absolutely have the right to do-will also respect my right to disagree with you.
Leslie
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Actually, Leslie, I think it would be fair to say that you’re more likely to get asked to review something in print when you have a new book out vs. when you’re just sitting around your house in your underwear writing the new one. Book reviews don’t care if you have a book on the shelf next to the book you’re reviewing, they just care that you’re providing insight into the work irrespective of your own release schedule. And, lets be honest, they want to sell papers, and what sells a paper more than having someone marketable or notable writing for them on a topic of interest — be it a politician or celebrity writing an op-ed, or an author of some note writing a review.
And though I understand your sense that some websites have no accountability, you actually answer your own question as it relates to HelenKay: she wouldn’t review the new Lori Foster book because she has a relationship with her beyond sharing the same publisher — both of them are earning money from the other in their anthology. It’s a clear conflict of interest now and, since I know HelenKay has lots of integrity, she’d not place herself in that position. The other reviewers on the site don’t have that same conflict and thus could (and perhaps should) review whatever they content to review provided there isn’t a clear conflict. Knowing someone isn’t the mere basis for conflict, certainly. It’s not about reviewing competition — you’re reviewing books, not sales numbers — and so the question then becomes do you match up the right person with the right book, not author.
You also seem to operate under the fallacy that reviewers (or most) come in without integrity from the get go. In the last 6 years, I’ve received, I dunno, 30 major book reviews and I’ve never once questioned that someone had an axe to grind, even when I received bad reviews. I usually deserved them. Likewise, with good reviews, I never assumed that person wanted something from me. When I write reviews, my goal is to simply inform the reader. So, for instance, when I wrote a bad review of American Vertigo for a newspaper recently, was it because I hate the French? Was it because I don’t like Bernard Levy’s hair? No, I wrote a negative review because the book was poorly done in nearly every facet…and I said so. As a writer, that’s all I can ask, for negativity to be backed up. As a reviewer, I aim to do that. I don’t care about the artist, I care about the art, which is perhaps why I can never understand why this arguement rages so in the romance community and nowhere else — it’s strictly business.
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Tod, thank you, I obviously had some very incorrect assumptions about how the reviews were handled in the big review venues. I still don’t think it makes much sense…but sure, I can see why it sells papers.
I do however, have to point out that I absolutely was not trying to ask HelenKay if she would interview an anthology she was in with Lori Foster. That would, of course, be ridiculous for an author to review a book with her name on the cover. I was strictly referring to Lori’s (or any other Brava authors’ I mentioned, for that matter) next single title.
And finally, no, I think I said in my verrrrry long treatise (so maybe you missed it) that while it would be nice to think that every reviewer would approach their job with a completely open mind & absolutely no personal bias, human nature being what it is, we all know it’s possible that some people (and I think I emphasized “some” at one point) won’t. And since Alison and I have had many conversations about the Rita judging, I thought that would be a pretty fair example of how often published authors just cannot separate their own crappy preconceived prejudices from their responsibilities as a judge…and, maybe by an extension, as a reviewer?
Again…I’m not trying to change your mind and I certainly wouldn’t presume to tell you you’re wrong and I’m right. I’m just telling you why I feel the way I do.
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Les - I’m doing pages, but I will respond later. The quota is killing me . . .
by Alison Kent
on April 10th, 2006 at 3:24 pm
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Leslie -
Your last sentence is exactly my point. I respect you for coming on this site and laying out there, especially when the comments up until then had mostly supported Alison’s view. I simply disagree with the sentiment you set out. Does that mean I go around to other authors and my editor and talk about how Leslie Kelly can’t take criticism or any other such nonsense? Of course not. You have your view and I have mine. I don’t call your view “ridiculous” or engage in any other name calling. You feel one way and I feel another. We simply disagree.
Which leads me to my point…I am asking for the same courtesy. You may disagree with the fact some romance authors review other romance authors. That’s fine. But, that is different from saying my view on this is silly or ridiculous or whatever other negative thing you might say. That is a different from assuming that reviews by authors are motivated only by poor intentions. That is different from saying I, for whatever reason, don’t have the right to review books if I want to or that I should expect some sort of justified payback.
As an aside: review are different from trashing an author for sport. Reviews are different from cover blurbs, which are pure promo tools. These are all very different things. We’re mising them here and, really, that distorts the argument. If you want someone standing right behind you fighting off people who trash authors and books just because they think it’s fun - call me. I’ll be there. But, trashing an author and providing a review are not the same.
As to your questions - I have thought about the review and impact and a whole host of other factors. Wendy (my partner in reviewing) and I talk about this all the time. I’ve gotten hate mail, two of which I viewed as threats. A husband of an author wrote me to complain about my review even though I liked and recommended the book! Two people wrote to tell me how I better watch out when my own books come out because they plan to not read them but then to say negative things anyway. Yeah, trust me, I think about this. This is the stuff I find personal and ridiculous. This 7th grade bully-on-the-playground attitude from these emails (not you or anything said here) convinces me reviews by authors are necessary. We have to be grown-ups about this. Every other genre accepts internal criticism. I truly believe it is the romance author community’s inability to do so minimizes us. We become easy targets of a “watch the little girls fight” mentality. No name-calling is needed. No nastiness is needed. I should be able to say the Anita Blake books don’t work for me and not suffer threats of retaliation. We’re professionals, not junior high girls trying out for cheerleading.
And, yes, I thought about all of this when I decided not to review anonymously. I decided that if f I put it out there, I had to be ready to take the heat and slap my name on it. I’m actually fine with heat. Personal attacks on my motives…yeah, I honestly didn’t expect that. We don’t know each other. The way you describe yourself is exactly how I would describe myself. You can’t know what I think or what motivates me to review - although I’ve tried to explain the latter. The bottom line is that I love this genre. I read it all the time. I can converse on it, and love to introduce people to it. I love to find new authros. And, I love that moment when an author I thought was good before blows me away (ex. Amy Fetzer). All I am asking is that you don’t immediately assume the worst because I don’t love every romance I read and because I, on a site dedicated to honest romance reviews, set out to discuss both the good and the bad of romance. I believe the open dialog is necessary. If you disagree, I honestly can understand that. I disagree, but I get it. Maybe you can see (a little) where I am coming from as well.
As for who I will and won’t review - I won’t review Erin McCarthy or Lori Foster because I am actually in an anthology with them. I like them both, so reviewing their work doesn’t bother me from a “can I be negative/positive” standpoint. But, I have a fiduciary interest in Lori and Erin because, let’s face it, people aren’t buying WHEN GOOD THINGS HAPPEN TO BAD BOYS to read me. Readers want them. Me then doing a review that amounts to a lovefest of Erin’s new book or whatever, is a clear conflict, I believe. Again, not because I’m afraid to say I didn’t like THE PREGNANCY TEST as much as her other stuff. No, because my paycheck is directly tied to her right now. As for other Bravas, I have reviewed them.
I have never ever thought in terms of “gee, my book will be on the shelf at the same time as this” before picking a book. Really, that competition thing has never occurred to me. What you may not realize is that we actually have the same agent. That wasn’t something I checked before I reviewed because, again, I just don’t think of this in terms of making fun of another book or author so that I can somehow benefit. I review what I want to review, or what a publishers or PR people or readers request us to review, and we get requests all the time. I don’t do an analysis of when stuff is coming out in terms to when my books are coming out. That, it seems to me, would amount to me scoping out the competition.
What does all this mean? I think we should agree to disagree. Again, my only request would be to accord me the same respect of my opinion as I do of yours. My book just came out. I reviewed before being published. I’d like to think I was fair (not always right, certainly) and honest as a reader when I reviewed. By being published, I didn’t change. I still review the same way. I still read every review book more than once. I still try not to be personal. I’m still the same person and my motives haven’t changed.
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I’ve been following this conversation for days (thanks for the PBR mention, Alison!) and have mixed feelings about posting, but what the heck. I am a reviewer (and unpublished author) who is not afraid to discuss a book honestly (nor am I afraid to have my name on my work; if that impacts my chances of getting published, well, it’s a risk I took knowingly).
Have I trashed books? Depends on your defintion — I don’t attack authors personally, but I will, without hesitation, point out cliched writing, plot weaknesses, lousy characterization, etc. Woe unto the book that fails on all levels; I will ask how in world it got published. Let’s be honest, far too many poorly written romance novels do get published. Readers who educate themselves via reviews deserve serious analysis. Authors who are looking to build their craft deserve the same. Glowing, uncritical reviews do nothing for anyone, unless you need a good ego boost, and I’d be the last to deny anyone that!
I think the best people to honestly and intelligently review the romance genre are romance authors and readers, but especially authors. Peer review is absolutely critical to growing the genre, and serious peer review is missing in romance. I think authors who step forward and intelligently discuss the genre — whether or not it’s “competition” (and I don’t believe that’s a real issue) — should be lauded. We constantly complain that romance isn’t being taken seriously by those outside the genre, but then we don’t take our work seriously enough to analyze and critique it. We can’t have it both ways.
Leslie is right that bias is an inherent part of the human condition, and this is why not every author makes for a good reviewer. Sometimes it’s hard to set aside your personal views — like HK, I choose not to review authors with whom I have a personal connection (be it a positive or negative connection). Maybe I could be open-minded, but something tells me I won’t. Better to leave those books for someone who can do them justice. And by justice, I mean point out strengths and weaknesses without fear.
by Kassia
on April 10th, 2006 at 4:06 pm
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HelenKay, since you clearly have taken issue with my use of the word ridiculous, I want to apologize. I’m still fuming after reading the trashing of a friend’s book at a website…no, it wasn’t you. :grin: It was an unpublished writer who took great glee in pronouncing this book every negative invective you can think of and then reading the comments where all her friends declared that they couldn’t believe that this book had gotten published while she still hadn’t sold a book. I was so incensed over this lack of professionalism and, quite frankly, common sense that I’m still smarting, which is why I posted here in the first place on this topic. I’m sorry people have written you emails like that–in my opinion, that is unprofessional as well. Anyway, I don’t like negativity and I most certainly will not condone THREATS against anyone. That’s a little beyond scary, IMO.
So, please consider this an apology for the use that word. I didn’t mean to imply you were ridiculous. I had someone else in mind.
by Julie Leto
on April 10th, 2006 at 5:11 pm
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Just wanted to say, wow, what a reasonable, civilized, honest and open discussion this has been. I’ve quite enjoyed it and I feel as though I’ve learned some things. HelenKay, as I wrote to you privately, I, too, am sorry you’ve taken some direct hits…but again, I’m not surprised. There are some wacky people out there and maybe that is one of the main reasons I just can’t see doing what you do. You’ve obviously got brass ones.
Thanks Alison (and everyone) for a very interesting exchange. I don’t generally get involved in this type of discussion but am glad I ventured forth, and was never made to feel attacked or stupid for expressing a generally unvoiced opinion.
And lest you think Julie and I agree on everything all the time (because we are great friends, and we do agree on this) don’t even get us started on religion. Or politics. :eek:
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Julie -
I appreciate the apology. But, really, it’s not necessary. I do understand the view you and Leslie have on this. You are being brave and coming out and talking about a view many people have. It’s not easy to state a position openly that isn’t getting a lot of play. My only point was that I think we can agree to disagree, and all be respectful of each other. That’s why I questioned the word ridiculous.
Also, I explained the emails I got (something that I’m not completely comfortable doing on a public stage) just to say that I have thought and re-thought this issue. I don’t do this lightly. And, unfortunately, some of our brethern don’t understand that there is a line you do not cross. In no way do I view you and Leslie in that light. Please know that.
I haven’t read the blog discussion (if you can call that a discussion) about your friend. What you describe happened to your friend does not sound respectful or helpful or well-intentioned. I’m hoping we can all agree that hurtful personal attacks and juvenile statements and comments are unprofessional, and that comments borne of envy don’t help the genre either. Maybe if those comments turned into a fruitful and open dialog, we’d all benefit. We can hope…
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Leslie - No reason for you to be sorry either. And, yeah, leave it to Alison to start all this 
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I’m hoping we can all agree that hurtful personal attacks and juvenile statements and comments are unprofessional, and that comments borne of envy don’t help the genre either.
We can absolutely agree on this! Of course, this comes from an author who while endlessly opinionated, I have never written to a reviewer, even when they were dead wrong. (And I mean that…I’ve had reviewers write about my books and I can’t help but thinking…are they sure they’re reviewing the right book? I mean the FACTS were wrong, but I digress.)
Anyway, yes, what I read was hurtful and juvenile and really way off on the karma scale. I just couldn’t imagine how someone who wanted to be published thought that such a display was a good idea.
by Julie Leto
on April 10th, 2006 at 6:05 pm
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Thanks Alison for the book, I look forward to reading it!
I just got done reading all the comments after mine and what a discussion!!! I can see all your points, but I still think a HONEST auther review or discussion is best. They are the experts,they write the same thing. Sadly as was pointed out many won’t review because of reprisel worries. I think if all reviewers did it constructively and not in a bashing way it would become more commplace. Hopefully this will change.
by Dena
on April 11th, 2006 at 9:29 am
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Honest reviews by authors are hard to come by because they fear career reprisals. Face it, even though authors are readers, once you become published, you have different issues. You are no longer a reader but an author. Big difference. A negative review of one author by another can bring trouble. It’s not worth it.
The internet is a bathroom wall. Anyone can say anything, but if you get a bad reputation, your career can sink fast. I enjoy reading books and I’m tempted to enter into book discussions, but don’t for this very reason. I discuss books in private with friends. That way no one gets hurt on the very public internet.
Readers reviewing books, that’s another issue. Ouch if a reader dislikes my book or rips it to shreds in a review. As an author, it’s a fact of life and I have to get over it. What I dislike is when a reviewer is wrong about facts in my book. I don’t go on public message boards to defend the book or gently point out the mistake because I have no desire to be publicly attacked, which can happen too easily and I’ve seen happen to friends.
by Once a reader
on April 11th, 2006 at 12:01 pm
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I don’t think there’s anything wrong with authors reviewing other authors, because I think full disclosure of the relationship between both authors is absolutely necessary.
When it comes to reviewing, credibility is something you must have. If you keep trashing books for no other reason than you don’t like the author, for example, don’t you think that eventually, readers will notice it?
Also, Julie Leto mentioned that she thinks that she, as an author, has no right to criticize a book. If you’re a scientist wanting to publish a paper, it’s other scientists who review it first. Same thing, isn’t it? (I adore Marisela, by the way) It is because you have achieved something in the same field that you are most qualified to review a book.
I do understand that some authors think that it’s perhaps not the best thing to do for their career. It makes sense to me that a published author might choose to only comment on books she/he enjoyed. Like Once a reader said, they may choose the politic way out rather than get embroiled in something they can’t get out of.
by May
on April 11th, 2006 at 12:31 pm
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Make it go away! Make it go away!
HelenKay and Wendy reviewed–and disliked– my first book, Layover, and we’re still on speaking terms. I was also involved in the Tod Goldberg discussion that Alison’s looking for. This discussion is re-igniting my post-traumatic stress! Ahhhhhhh!
HelenKay, pass me a drink! I know this isn’t about me in particular, but man it all feels so familiar.
Leslie, I loved your verrrry long post. Julie, you rock! And HelenKay, you’ve managed to, if not completely convince me, at least make me think and confuse me enough to wonder if peer review isn’t such an awful thing. Happy now?
The thing about getting a bad review from HelenKay and Wendy: at the time, of course if hurt. It was my first book, and like some old lady in a park telling you your first born is ugly, my first reaction was to punch them in the face. However, now a year has passed. I don’t want to punch HelenKay anymore. Part of the reason I don’t want to punch her is because she’s too damn classy to live.
Another reason I don’t want to punch her is because I realized, finally, that what I really wanted to do at the time of the bad review was communicate to her where I thought she missed the boat.
As writers, we’re communicators. We want to connect through our books. But HelenKay didn’t “get” what I wanted to say through my book. She didn’t understand my language (from my POV). Like any normal abuser, I wanted to make her get it. But I couldn’t. And that opened up a whole awful blogosphere nightmare that resulted in her getting some hate mail.
I still can’t think of that and not cringe.
But anyway, there’s definitely a huge difference in a “reader” review and an “author” review. They serve different purposes. In my post at Tod’s blog I used Romancing The Stone as an example, and I still believe in that post. If anyone cares to go look, you can view it here.
Have fun!
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PS– just to clarify, I wasn’t involved at all with the hate mail.
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Hi, May! So glad you adore Marisela…I do, too! Can you imagine what that chica would have to say over all this? I totally understand your point regarding scientists…and it is a good one and frankly, HelenKay has made me think hard about this topic. I think the difference is that science is, for the most part, qualitative. Either the method of experimentation was valid and produced a measurable result or it did not. Writing is not so.
Maybe reviewing is simply not for me, but I know all too well my personal prejudices and preferences. For instance, I have a lot of trouble reading a book with a doormat heroine. I’m very aware that over the course of the book, this heroine may learn to grow a spine and that is the book’s whole point–the journey to her strength. However, I’ve read very, very few of those books that work for me. Some of those books are big bestsellers, too! It’s just not my personal preference.
So who am I to say that a book with a doormat heroine doesn’t work? That’s just not what I like. I’ve read books where I thought the plots were convuluted and lacked logic and other people read that same book and raved. My point is, just because I’m a writer, I don’t consider myself an expert. I am always willing to share my opinions, but privately, simply because I think that I shouldn’t use the perception of my expertise (by way of my being published) to influence a reader on whether or not they buy someone else’s book. It’s a personal choice, I suppose.
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I’ve been trying to get back here and just haven’t had time, but something Ann said I feel I want to stop and comment on. She said:
As writers, we’re communicators. We want to connect through our books. But HelenKay didn’t “get” what I wanted to say through my book. She didn’t understand my language (from my POV). Like any normal abuser, I wanted to make her get it. But I couldn’t. And that opened up a whole awful blogosphere nightmare that resulted in her getting some hate mail.
I actually have this “getting” thing in my notes, so it seems appropriate to mention it here. I have a book out now that is getting fairly good feedback. But two readers (the source isn’t the issue here) have pointed out the same thing that threw them. And it’s caused me to realize the *I* did not communicate it well - not that they didn’t get it. (Again, my opinion.) I think back to that particular scene, and realize that I could have done things differently, been clearer in setting it up, etc., and I think I would have avoided that issue. This is why critical review is something I really embrace. This one example with this one book has shown me how vital it is to make sure I am communicating what I want to - and it’s often way hard to do that when I’m so close to the book and *know* the details and nuances that may never make it onto the page!
by Alison Kent
on April 12th, 2006 at 8:13 am
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I would absolutely agree with you, Alison, that critical review can be a learning tool for the author–particularly if it’s one scene that failed to communicate to more than one reader. Unfortunately in my case, it was the whole book! LOL. When I got to analyzing it, I realized the problem came down to voice. So this was a much larger issue than just failure to nail a single scene.
But that’s ok! My voice isn’t going to appeal to everyone.
I think the romance genre is unique in that most of us use critique partners. Our books have already gone through a peer review before they even get submitted! I wonder if any other genre does that so extensively. Anyone know?
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Ok, color me el stupido! I rode in here from Karen S’s blog and had no idea this was such an old discussion. Ah well. It sure was interesting!
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It’s not that old, Ann. Just a week. And Karen and I obviously have a different idea of what a fight is, as this discussion was not the least bit out of hand.
by Alison Kent
on April 12th, 2006 at 9:48 am
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Random thoughts I’ve been jotting down the last several days of thinking of this:
First off, it seems to me that romance is the only fiction genre that doesn’t have an outlet for critical “peer” review. As Tod said, the LA Times, NYT, Washington Post, etc., all feature book revi
